26

(19 replies, posted in Affinity Studio)

sneil69 wrote:

I don't think V3 is written from ground up, so there is still a chance that it will make it soon. As to why omit such features is beyond me.

Whilst affinity. Studio by Canva is NOT Affinity V3 (Serif have stated this in writing)  the V3-something build in the studio splash screen and the similarity of many parts of studio with Affinity V2 suggest s to me (because I have done this with large software projects myself)  Canva has probably branched all the Affinity code to Studio and base-lined it in the version control system.  Of course, the V3*** build in the splash screen could just be marketing and window dressing, but it makes sense to reuse the code you can.

Then as you build the new app you reuse, or modify, parts of the modules from the previous system. This saves reinventing the wheel and most of the code is "proven in use"  It also helps with white box unit testing. The design of Affinity V2 was that the three apps shared a lot of code for common functionality, both visible and hidden,   

Now the Studio app is completely new in design and structure, as it is a single UI That said: underneath It will use a lot of the V2 code.  The thing is the light/dark mode that is in V2 is in the UI code they are not reusing. 

If they have designed the new UI to have now (or later) a changeable light/dark/custom UI then it might turn up in 3.1 etc On the other hand, as there are comments that "sources in Serif" have it will be difficult to do it suggests the new UI has not been designed with this in mind. So you are very unlikely to get it unless you can get millions of users asking for it.

Some are saying studio is "free" so you have no leverage. This is true to some extent, but Canva want to sell subscriptions. So, if they calculate they will sell more subscriptions with a light mode or changeable UI, then one will appear, but probably only in the subscription version.

Some cynics might say "this was the plan all along" but I have no idea on that. I don't know Canva well enough to speculate.

27

(8 replies, posted in Publisher (Desktop & iPad))

When you say the "new affinity"  do you mean affinity.studio by Canva?  If so that has a separate section in the forum. 
https://punster.me/serif/viewforum.php?id=22

This section is for Affinity V1 and V2  as Serif said in their last email to me. "This isn’t a version three. It’s something else entirely. An all-in-one, customizable app, combining photo editing, vector design, and page layout in one smooth, powerful space. "

street79 wrote:

@JAmedia
Sorry for the wrong section,, it won't happen next time.

No worries, you should get a better response in the affinity.studio section, especially as it moves away from Affinity Publisher V2 there will be crucial differences surfacing.

Lets not.  affinity.studio by Canva  has its own section. https://punster.me/serif/viewforum.php?id=22
This section is for Affinity Publisher.

BTW  in the last email from Serif (Europe) said "This isn’t a version three. It’s something else entirely. An all-in-one, customizable app, combining photo editing, vector design, and page layout in one smooth, powerful space"

Alfred wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

MS gave over 21/2 years notification of pulling MS Publisher

21/2 is 10½, which I’m pretty sure isn’t what you meant! The usual way to express ‘two and a half’ in numerals is to put a space before ‘1/2’, like this: 2 1/2.

I suspect you actually wanted to type ‘2½’ but didn’t know a quick and easy way to do so. I like the web page at https://symbols.typeit.org for such situations, and I find myself using it quite frequently.

You are correct (edited it now)  thanks for the link, that is useful.

It was a surprise that MS was giving over two years notice for end of life for something most of us though had died years ago.
The reason being is that people with 365 licences won't be able to open their .pub files when publisher stops in October 2026 as it is a cloud based system.

Those with a stand alone perpetual publisher will be OK, but Publisher went to 365 in 2013. So you will only be able to open MS publisher files that are still using the 2010 version of Publisher (ie one that is 15 years old)   So the only option is looking like Libre Office depending which version of MS Publisher files it supports or convert them app to EPS or PDF.

This is the same problem users of Affinity V1 and V2 will have in 15 years...

The problem Canva affinity.studio users have is they don't have a perpetual license... it is free or subscription. Either can change what you get (or not) at any time. So like the MS Pub 365 users they could have files they can't open.

Twolane wrote:

I'm confused about all the posturing about licenses and shutdowns and such. MS Publisher just closed its doors, and no one is whining the blues about a major outfit shutting down a program forever. What's with that and v3? At least v3 works. So does v2. Will it shut down? Who knows? Keep guessing.

Something else will come along. It always does. Kinda like busses. There's always another one a few minutes away - until there isn't and we find a new bus stop.

Meanwhile, I like v3. I like v2, too. I don't care if either or both shuts down tomorrow. I have things more important to me than a pile of ones and zeros. I'm sure you all do, too.

Edited to add: In any case, software will come along - just like a bus - to replace what you're complaining about. Or not. Who knows? No one.

No one is complaining about MS Publisher going because most thought it had been discontinued over a decade ago. There have been no updated in years (and before that only every 2-4 years) In the last 15 years it was only to move it to Office 365.   The last up-data, now I have looked, was 5 years ago.

Most users were not non-professionals who had been upsold the MS Office bundle with it in or, most I saw, had a "borrowed" corporate licence for their MS Office.   The Cooperates didn't use it much, it was just part of the bundle with things they did want.  Their professionals used other things like Quark and Aldus Pacemaker.

BTW MS gave over 2 & 1/2 years notification of pulling MS Publisher.  They didn't freeze the website, close licences and say there will be a notification in a month.

As @DCR mentioned, most Printers didn't like it or, as I have seen on many printers websites, didn't accept MS publisher files at all. 
Most of the professional world thought MS Publisher had gone over a decade ago, and it was only a few amateurs using it at home on old PC's

Also, no other programs could import MS .pub files. I believe LibreOffice does now, though I don't know which versions, but no professional programs do.   There is no MS Pub viewer (unlike word and excel)


As for is Canva's affinity.studio being Affinity V3, yesterday I had an email from Serif (Europe)  saying " This isn’t a version three. It’s something else entirely. An all-in-one, customizable app, combining photo editing, vector design, and page layout in one smooth, powerful space. "

So according to Serif   " This isn’t a version three. It’s something else entirely  so that is sorted.  This is Canva's affinity.studio V1

Bad_Wolf wrote:

I completely understand your team’s position on staying with V2. The format shift is a real consideration, especially in a multi-user setup. I’m curious where you’ll head next if you move on from the Affinity ecosystem — sounds like you’ve got some interesting projects running.

There will have to be a lot of thought involved.  I have only just persuaded some to think of moving off MS Publisher thanks to MS finally dropping it.   This may have been the final trigger for Canva, A lot of the people still using MS Publisher fall ill into Canva's target demographic.

Regards
Chris

Bad_Wolf wrote:

@JAmedia;

Experience always adds a valuable perspective.

I’m well aware of how these transitions can unfold behind the scenes. Still, I tend to judge by how the tools perform in real-world use, not just in financial filings or boardroom plans.

Either way, I think we both agree it’ll be interesting to watch how this plays out for the creative community itself.

At the moment, I am using Affinity Studio to create my new book, and I have to say, I like what I see so far.

As I wrote earlier: forward, ever forward!

Good luck with the book. I would be interested in your experience in affinity.studio (it isn't Affinity Studio, the A is lower case) 

I do a lot of non-fiction: Four magazines a year (two column with lots of pictures)   and multiple books, all not fiction.  Fortunately, I don't write most of it!! :-)  I am hoping to had editing over to someone else and concentrate on writing and documentary videos.

We had been standardizing on Affinity V2 However as affinity.studio is a completely different file format we are not moving to that as most of our people want to stay on V2.    Had there been an Affinity V3 (with three apps) we would have moved to that.

We are now contemplating our next move which won't be to Canva.

Bad_Wolf wrote:

@JAmedia,

That’s fair

I’ve seen the filings, too. My interests are more in how all this plays out for creators in real workflows, though.

That’s where it really matters.


They make very interesting reading,  not just the numbers.
That, and other things, will dictate how things are played out if you can read and understand what the documents are saying.
It is a bit like reading an estate agents blurb and knowing what it actually means,

My own Mar-Comm manager had worked for some multinational companies and could translate the meanings. We had both been involved in buyouts and mergers in different capacities. Software engineering in my case. 

I hope you get what you are hoping for, and as you are a Canva subscriber already I expect you won't be disappointed.  Whereas those who moved from Adobe (and subscriptions)  won't be going anywhere near Canva (or their subscriptions)

.

Bad_Wolf wrote:

My view comes from hands-on use of both systems over time, not just theory, .

My view is neither theoretical nor being a user. 

You need to examine the evidence.
A login at Companies House helps.

Fascinating assessment of two multinational companies that both have a near identical subscription model, though to different market segments.

However, I am used to having to do the analysis without the emotive stuff and deeper due diligence.

Several of your assertions above are just wrong, in that the evidence does not support them.

Time will tell, so let's come back to this in 12 months and see where we are?

Hilltop wrote:

As I look at the app, it's V3, it even says so on the splash screen.

And this is the last I'll say about this. Clearly, you're not happy with the changes after the Canva takeover and I'm by and large pleasantly surprised by what they came up with.
Anyway, this whole industry is changing rapidly. Who knows what awaits us in a few years?
https://i.postimg.cc/qNTJzLfg/Splashscreen.jpg

I have been in this industry over 35 years. I know how it works.
I know how corporate marketing works, as I have seen it from the inside of companies like Canva and Serif. 

I am please you are happy with affinity-studio V1.   So you go your way with AbC and the rest of us, possibly the majority of Affinity users, will go our own way.

Hilltop wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

Yes, it would be welcome,
but it appears Canva have optimized the UI for photo users.  Also, they pushed photo and AI not saying much about the Publisher side, which would normally have a light UI.

"Be patient, Grasshopper." (remember that show?) I suspect it will become available, perhaps even with colored icons.  ;-) 

JAmedia wrote:

Incidentally, Canva changed Serif's direction and apparently slowed the maintenance releases for V2. Which gives you some idea of the way Canva works.

I cannot recall V1 being maintained by Serif when V2 came out. By the way, V2.6.5 is presently in beta.

That's some evidence that the old Serif team, led by Ash Hewson, really aim to honor their past pledges.

Yes, I do remember the TV series. It is still available.  Light UI WAS available and was taken out. You mean they are going to put it back?
The indications don't suggest that.

Affinity V1 became Affinity V2 It was an incremental upgrade. Though as they are perpetual licenses some stayed on V1 (also some on Serif Page Plus)

V2.6.5 is released. It isn''t in Beta. It fixed two bugs in the Mac versions and cut off a lot of the Affinity account stuff. However, it now says "Your licence is active and will never expire".  And "You do not need to remain online or signed in to use your purchases"  Which is good. In fact, it is better than the affinity-studio licence.

The evidence is that the old serif team are gone.  5 out of the 8 Serif Directors resigned when Canva took over. Also the direction of travel for the engineering development was changed by Canva. They slowed up the updates for V2 in 2024/25.   

Make no mistake despite the V3 in places it is not Affinity V3 it is Canva affinity-studio V1. It is a new App, new logo, new website, In fact give it another 12 months the "affinity.studio"   name will be the only connection to Serif.   The emphasis is on photo, AI. and selling subscriptions.

BTW people are calling affinity-studio: AbC or "Affinity by Canva".  Remember, Canva has 380 Million users.  Affinity 5 million, half(?) of whom are not going to Canva's AbC.  So Canva won't be listening to the 2.5 million Pro and serious users of Affinity (many of whom came from Adobe to escape subscriptions) as they make up less than 0.5% of the Canva market. 

So if you want to know the direction of travel for AbC look to Canva not Serif. Canva is a huge corporate that is about profits.  It is very different to Serif in size and ethos.

Hilltop wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

Light UI *is* welcome, or would be?  I thought it was set to a dark UI, have they made it switchable?

I stand corrected, it would be welcome.

Yes, it would be welcome,
but it appears Canva have optimized the UI for photo users.  Also, they pushed photo and AI not saying much about the Publisher side, which would normally have a light UI. 

Incidentally, Canva changed Serif's direction and apparently slowed the maintenance releases for V2. Which gives you some idea of the way Canva works.

Alfred wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

Like many Affinity V1/V2I users didn't get on the Canva train.

“V2I”? I’m guessing that you had finger trouble there, Chris, and that what you actually meant to type was “Like many Affinity V1/V2 users I didn't get on the Canva train.”

Yes finger trouble.  However, the "many" Affinity users not getting on the Canva train, whilst being a large number of several millions, it is probably about 0.5% of the number of Canva users.  Which is why anyone who wants something other than  free->subscription and AI is not going to get very far.

So whilst Canva's affinity.studio will delight the 10's of millions of Canva users, many (most?) Affinity users will be disappointed.

Hilltop wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

Affinity Publisher V2 users won't want to use Canva's affinity.studio.

Of course I want to and I am using it. But a light UI option is very welcome.

Light UI *is* welcome, or would be?  I thought it was set to a dark UI, have they made it switchable?

To be usable, you need photo with a dark UI and publisher with a light UI. I think Vector graphics usually use a light UI?
It needs to be set per app or in the case of affinity studio by  persona,

sneil69 wrote:

I TOTALLY disagree with you - Your argument has no valid ground and WILL be proven wrong in due course - Furthermore you are not obligated to stay on this "train" get off at the next stop!!!

My argument has over 30 years experience of working inside the to back it up. Also, what Serif has said in written statements.  Also I have been around long enough not to make silly statements like  "you WILL be proven wrong"   nothing is certain.  Though, some moves are all but impossible to go back on.

Also some people here don't understand the differences between perpetual licence, "free" and subscription.  Legally, there is a vast difference.

As for getting off the train.  Like many Affinity V1/V2I users didn't get on the Canva train. 

Affinity.studio is not suitable for what I do, and this has become apparent.  As I do real work with these tools, I don't dive in on day one. I never have as I can't afford the disruption if it doesn't work, and already the reports are saying it is not as good as the Affinity V2 tools.

Alfred wrote:
sneil69 wrote:
PaoloT wrote:

Light mode removed from the UI…

Extremely annoyed about that!!!!

A retrograde step if ever there was one!! The fact that the Light UI Mode was warmly welcomed when it was added to the original desktop Affinity apps, together with the continual complaints from those of us who want the same option in the iPad apps, is a clear signal that users want more such options rather than fewer.

Whilst dark mode is essential for photo work (and video editing), you need light mode for DTP, i.e. "Layout". That was the bit that bot Canva and Ash almost ignored in the affinity. studio launch.  So we can see where they are going with this.    Affinity Publisher V2 users won't want to use Canva's affinity.studio.

dcr wrote:

Serif was disappointing but, before the Canva purchase, there was cause for some optimism.

And now, with Canva, there are a lot of unknowns.


To be fair, Serif were going in the right direction and doing a lot of good things until Canva.

With Canva, unfortunately, it is not a "lot of unknowns"   Their business model, way of working and plans are fairly well known and understood.  Just not known to many Affinity users. Having had a look around recently, there were warning signs, including from Serif themselves.

dcr wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

However, as even Adobe honour perpetual licenses years after discontinuing products.

Unless you have/had CS3 or CS4 . . .

Fair point. I didn't know that as I have CS6 and still use bits of it.
I was referring to  Lightroom  V6.4.1 but I have just found this
Starting with 12/31/2023, Adobe has ended download support for Lightroom 6. This means that you'll not be able to download Lightroom version 6.14.    Which isn't good, but then it was superseded in 2017. I have back-ups and if you can chase your way around Adobe's UK phone system you could get your activation sorted. Though, I think I did that before 2023.

Talking of Lightroom, I was hoping for an Affinity DAM (Lightroom+Bridge) to tie the three Affinity apps together.  That would have made it perfect.

The problem, Canva isn't aiming at the professional market.   As a wise person said to me once.  An amateur has one saw, a carpenter has 6. saws.  Also there is a reason why a professional doesn't normally use multi-tools. They are not optimized for anything. 

As we were discussing in other places, photo work usually needs a dark UI (as does video editing) but DTP had a light UI. 

We are now looking for something to migrate to when we can't carry on with Affinity V2.   This is either when it becomes impractical on current systems or we need more seats.

I am not against subscription per-say it depends on what it is for. We are looking at the BMD Resolve Cloud subscription for when we need a team working on a video project from remote sites. However, that is a functional add-on to the system, for which I have a perpetual licence. They can't take that away from me.   On a "free" system I have no rights or protections at all.

dcr wrote:

Anyway, I am kind of waiting on Scribus 1.8 which sounds like it will maybe finally possibly catch-up with other page layout software offerings in terms of UI and usability.

I have heard good things about Scribus. But then I heard good things about Affinity.....   
Sadly the only thing still standing as it was is Adobe Indesign.... I can see my self going back to my perpetual CS6 except it runs on an Intel MAc... If I can get Adobe to let me move the licence to my Win 11 PC then it might be back to inDesign.

mattspace wrote:
dcr wrote:
mattspace wrote:

You know, Quark are still around, and still do perpetual licences.

lol

Quark seems to be run by scatter-brained half-wits that insist on shooting themselves in the feet.

And this is different from Serif, how? wink

I find it had to imagine the software is going to be any more janky than Affinity v2 was. I'm going to look at Scribus over the next week or two. I'm sick of documents in orphan formats because of corporate shenanigans.

I agree. The problem, I think, is the corporate shenanigans came (and stayed) from Canva.   My reading (literally) is Serif got an offer they could not refuse, and Canva came in with a complete Canva plan and ignored anything serif wanted to do. Like more V2 updates. So what Serif was for the last 45 years in products, plans and dreams has gone.

As for orphan formats. Make no mistake.  affinity.studio is not Affinity V3 any more than Affinity V2 was Page Plus V22.

dcr wrote:
JAmedia wrote:

The big problem is there is no perpetual licence.
This is probably too subtle for many, but with a perpetual licence you have a legal contract.  As with a subscription. The difference is the subscription can be changed. So can a perpetual licence but only for new users. It can't be back dated. Hence, Affinity V1 and V2 still working.  With a subscription licence, the rules can be changed at each point you come to buy the next subscription period (monthly?) and that then it affects what the software you have will do next month.

With Affinity v1, as long as you have your license code, you will be able to run it for as long as you have a machine capable of running it.

With Affinity v2, unless you have a business license that does not require Internet activation, there is no guarantee for how long you will be able to activate a new install of v2.  How long will Canva keep those activation servers running?  They can argue now that v3 is free so you can just switch rather than use the old, discontinued v2.

We have no idea how v3 and onwards will be.  When v4 comes out, will you still be able to use v3 or will you be forced to upgrade?

Internet activations and subscriptions both put you and your work subject to the whims of companies you have no control over.  You can be forced to upgrade to newer versions you may not want to use and such forced upgrades might force you to buy new machines you may not be able to afford or otherwise want.  You lose control over your own work and your own scheduling for upgrades and new purchases.

Agreed. It will come down to what Canva do with the Serif servers. Which means all bets are off as Canva isn't Serif and the number of V1/V2 users who haven't gone to Canva is going to be about 0.5%  of their customer base.

However, as even Adobe honour perpetual licenses years after discontinuing products. I am hopeful that Canva will for V1 and V2 but realistically here is F all you can do about it if they don't.

ErrkaPetti wrote:

  New iPad Q1 or Q2 2026??
I’ve bought myself an new iPad last week, and iPad Pro 13” M5 1TBSSD - hard to believe that it will be any better than that in the near future…

"iPad 12th gen release date Apple is expected to launch the 12th-gen iPad in spring 2026. "
https://www.phonearena.com/ipad-2026-re … eleasedate

However, the holdup for iPad is only a guess by me. My apple contacts aren't contactable at the moment.

Hilltop wrote:
Ali wrote:

@Bad_Wolf & @Hilltop

I am glad to know that mine is not a lone voice!

No, it's definitely not!

But shouting is more fashionable than cheering, it seems nowadays.... ;-)

That is true. Social media has somewhat lowered the level of public discourse, and in general, social media is a bad thing. It was far better before the Eternal September, but the genie is out of the bottle.

Re affinty,studio the vast majority of Canva users are delighted.  So are many of the former Serif users. Though, some did go into instant doom ad gloom mode.

There are some, a minority it has to be said, mostly professional and serious users of Affinity who are ringing alarm bells due to having seen all this sort of thing before. In my case, as I have detailed previously, I have been in the software and high-tech industry for decades, including owning my own company. I have seen takeovers/mergers from several standpoints, Inside the company bought, in side the buying company, from the side of someone involved with both parties.

Several of you are cheering the Canva move, despite the written words from Serif saying something different (It is just that you have to look for them.and know how to read them)   Serif have stated that after the Canva takeover, their engineering plans changed a lot.  In particular, that they didn't do as many updated to V2 as they wanted to.  They were also working to Canva's timetable.

Canva's affinity.studio isn't Affinity V3.  Either from a marketing point of view or an engineering point of view. They are doing just enough for the fan-boys to argue it is V3 but that is it, just window dressing.  affinty.studio is no more Affinity V3 than it is Page Plus V22.   When you have worked on the inside of these things, you get a feel for it when you look at what is said, what is written and what is done, and how it is done.

The big problem is there is no perpetual licence.
This is probably too subtle for many, but with a perpetual licence you have a legal contract.  As with a subscription. The difference is the subscription can be changed. So can a perpetual licence but only for new users. It can't be back dated. Hence, Affinity V1 and V2 still working.  With a subscription licence, the rules can be changed at each point you come to buy the next subscription period (monthly?) and that then it affects what the software you have will do next month.

With "Free" you have nothing. They can change the terms and capabilities at any time.

With Canva's affinity.studio it is free and subscription. Thus, they can change any part of it at almost any time. You have zero guarantees other than what you have paid for on subscription but only for the period of the subscription (IE a month?)  So in 2 months the whole split of what is free and what is subscription can change.

Yes affinity.studio will always be free forever (BTW "forever" is seen as 5 years in many fields)  You will be able to download it for free and run it for free but what it can do for free will change. As will the subscriptions and what you can get for them. So the free forever slogan isn't worth the paper it is written on.   

This will be driven by Canva not Serif as they lost most of their directors (5 of them) when Canva took over and installed their own Company Secretary and Chief Legal Officer  (an American based in Australia).  Engineering, marketing and direction will be decided by Canva in Australia.

Canva are going for an IPO launch in 2026 IE becoming a public company, currently they are a private company.  This will make the current Canva owners billionaires.   Canva's whole model is entry and low-end market that is subscription. They are not moving up market to take on Adobe, they have no need to. Besides, those professionals who would pay a subscription are staying with Adobe.

That is the reality. 
If it suits you, fine but understand this is now all being driven by Canva and their ethos. Serif had about 5 million users.  A drop in the ocean compared to Canva users (nearly 400 million?).  Canva don't care if they piss off 2.5 million affinity users, as they will make up that number easily in the coming months.  Or at least the increased revenue to the Pro subscription for the AI. 

AI and templates is something the mass market want. It isn't something the professionals want. However, there are far more in the mass market who will pay a subscription than the professionals who won't. Also, this tends to be age related so those who won't pay subscription will dwindle anyway over the years

This is business. Big business that will smile and knife you in the front. Never mind the back. It isn't nice, and I have seen many small companies die on contact with big business. The name is still there, and the logo, though most get a new one in time, but that is all it is. the ethos and people go. 
   
However, I think it is a sad end for Serif. Though I don't blame the Serif directors (the 5 that went or those still there). I suspect they were given an offer they could not refuse. Particular given the speed of the takeover.  These things usually take a year, not a month.

It is what it is.
I will be staying on Affinity V2 The outfits I work with will also stay on V2 for now. Where after that I have no idea

But make no mistake it is Canva affinity studio NOT Serif Affinity V3