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Alfred's Serif Users' Forums → Art & Literature → Cryptic clue wanted for word Fishcake
I have often (too often!) suggested to my wife that the answer to an 8 letter word is fishcake. It never is!
It occurred to me that in any event, I haven't a clue for this word, and I would appreciate efforts by our forum members to formulate one.
ghoti before celebrating at a wedding reception served with chips and peas (8)
William
Here’s one possibility that I find quite appealing:
Following battered hake and chips oddly another seafood dish (8)
That is very clever of you,
The clue encoded and rhyming too!
William
Angle for something to have and eat.
Greek at 21st asks for quiet before joining Patty
I now know why I am useless when it comes to cryptic crosswords. Not a single solution to Jack's question did I begin to understand. All I can think off would be "cod, for example, plus cream for example".
One of the ways a cue is organised for a cryptic crossword is that it consists of two parts, one is a "build" for the word, using all sorts of arcane methods.
For example, "pane" sounds like "pain", so that part of the clue, if it was for "pane" might be given as "pain reportedly." Then the other part of the clue is usually a synonym for the answer, but cleverly disguised as an extreme use of the real meaning.
Thus, our simple clue, a not very good example, could be "Window, reported pain," and the answer "pane."
What the clue will not be is a clear definition of the answer, like "Fitted in window."
So, "cod......example" could be the descriptive clue for a "straight" crossword, but is not cryptic,
Now, looking at "Angle for something to have and eat"
Fish may be a noun or a verb, which is where Angle comes in.
One from me, and one from my wife:
Make less 1000, adding 100 for sponge, maybe, after angle, suppertime treat.
Angle for sponge maybe for suppertime treat.
I now know why I am useless when it comes to cryptic crosswords. Not a single solution to Jack's question did I begin to understand. All I can think off would be "cod, for example, plus cream for example".
Hello Albert
I can not usually solve cryptic crossword puzzle either.
Solving them seems to rely on imprecise thinking.
My suggested clue is
ghoti before celebrating at a wedding reception served with chips and peas (8)
I remembered that the word ghoti was coined so as to be pronounced the same as fish.
gh as in cough
o as in women
ti as in action
before is so that fish is before something else
So four letters in total
Eight letters needed.
served with chips and peas is intended to indicate that the eight letter word is something served with chips and peas
So we need something about celebrating at a wedding reception
So eating, drinking, community singing, playing musical chairs, um ... er ...
Is it fishmusicalchairs, no, that is more than eight letters!
Ah!
Reading out telegrams? No
Best man's speech?
First dance?
Oh,
So what could it be?
However, I am unfamiliar with rules and conventions for constructing cryptic crossword clues, so maybe my suggested clue crashes!
William
The clue from GB is clever.
Starting from knowing the answer is fishcake I get it.
But I don't think I would have got angle meaning fish. I would probably have thought of right angle, so something being upright, or something being correct.
I might have got cake from 'have and eat it'.
Even knowing the answer I don't get a route to get fishcake from the clue that Joe posted.
I like the way that Jack indicates cake, that way of thinking I follow, and I think I would have known that the answer was something cake, but I would have been thinking of angle and cake sort as if it was a portion from a cake, sort of like a ninety degree portion of a cake. But suppertime to me would have meant eating that portion of cake and having a glass of Norfolk Punch with it. I don't think of supper as being evening meal. So it would not occur to me that a fishcake would be eaten for supper.
William
But I don't think I would have got angle meaning fish. I would probably have thought of right angle, so something being upright, or something being correct.
Cryptic crossword clues are all about that kind of misdirection! It’s very common, for example, to see ‘flower’ in a clue, but it often refers to a river (i.e. ‘that which flows’).
Here’s a reminder of the clue that I posted yesterday:
Following battered hake and chips oddly another seafood dish (8)
If you deconstruct it, you get
F = Following
HAKECIS = hake and chips oddly (i.e. HAKE plus the odd letters of the word CHIPS)
FISHCAKE = F plus battered (i.e. anagrammed) HAKECIS
Even knowing the answer I don't get a route to get fishcake from the clue that Joe posted.
21st greek letter = phi (fi)
askes for quiet = Sh
patty = cake
Joe
askes for quiet = Sh
ASKS for quiet.
Nice clue build!
Thank you, Joe. I was thinking of a cake at a 21st Birthday Party.
Is celebrating a 21st Birthday as in the Old Days gone now since the age of majority was lowered to 18?
To where has Youth vanished? Those seven years from when most left school to becoming legally an adult. Gradually eroded from both directions.
Those were were days when there were youth clubs when nobody over 21 could join but someone who was a member did not have to leave upon becoming 21. It was an era where often they would have a 21st party at the Youth Club then gradually drift away.
Do they still run or did changing the age of majority basically cause a cultural shift that people who were in the age range of 18 to 21 and legally adult thought differently from how people in the age range of 18 to 21 thought when people in the age range of 18 to 21 were not legally adults.
Are you over 21? Oh oh oh!
William
Returning to the subject of a clue for fishcake, and specifically for fish as explained by William.
My suggested clue is
ghoti .....
I remembered that the word ghoti was coined so as to be pronounced the same as fish.
gh as in cough
o as in women
ti as in action
This is nice thinking, but for such an oddball clue (not a derogatory description) I would add some indicator, like the "reportedly" I have used in some solutions posted here.
So it could be: "Reportedly, ghoti came before sponge, maybe, and shaped like one."
Similar indicators are "sounds like" (too obvious) and "heard." Sadly, at this instant I can't think of any others.
I can not usually solve cryptic crossword puzzle either.
Solving them seems to rely on imprecise thinking.
No, solving them relies on precise but lateral thinking. As knowing about your word "ghoti", and putting together sponge and cake.
The normal encyclopaedic clue for fishcake could be something like "Fried seafood patty", but there is little fun in that.
I have just thought of another clue. How about:
"Patty addled main Japanese wine without me subject, cod maybe."
Patty ....cod maybe = description of fishcake
addled = anagram indicator
main = chief
Japanese wine = saki
me subject = I
without me subject= delete the i, saki > sak
anagram of chief +sak = fishcake
Just different ways of thinking.
Even if I was given it all "on a plate" up to "Please find an anagram of chief and sak" I still would not have got fishcake.
I like to think I am reasonably good at puns though.
For example, the pun-based joke about the person who asked an entomologist about the origin of the word malapropism and was surprised when the person did not know.
William
Just different ways of thinking. Even if I was given it all "on a plate"
A crossword clue should never be worded like that, since “sak” isn’t a proper word. However, “chief” and “ask” would work fine.
A crossword clue should never be worded like that, since “sak” isn’t a proper word. However, “chief” and “ask” would work fine.
Not good, as there is no basis for the "sak"
I presume you accept this:
Japanese wine = saki
me subject = I
without me subject= delete the i, saki > sak
anagram of .... +sak = .....
I certainly could expect such a clue part.
I certainly could expect such a clue part.
Me too!
saki could be:
mirror image of me before drink in Kas, Turkey.
or is it too easy?
Joe, the derivation of sak does not depend on order, as it is merely a part of an anagram involving another word.
Your clue, I thinks, digs a little too deep.
Using Kas, Turkey is calling up unusual geographic knowledge.
Compare another clue, in yesterday's Daily Telegraph (DT), in part: "In California."
The part answer was LA, which would be more in the nature of common knowledge.
However the whole word in the solution was Ladrone (I'll not explain the latter part), which is a word meaning a thief, not commonly used, nor found in all major dictionaries, which is annoying. It means a thief or highwayman, the word coming from the Spanish, apparently used only when referring to South America. While it is in the Chambers 20th Century dictionary (which many years ago was rated the best for DT crosswords), and is in the full Shorter Oxford (the two volume small print version) it is not in the large Collins.
EDIT>
Ladrone does appear in my 1967 Funk and Wagnalls dictionary which is to be expected as an American word. I believe the F & W dictionary is a major US source, or am I taking the wrong cue from the Rowan and Martin's Laugh-in Show - Very Interesting.
BTW, I have an application "The Sage" which has dictionary lists, anagrams, wild card, etc, etc. Runs in W10.
Alfred's Serif Users' Forums → Art & Literature → Cryptic clue wanted for word Fishcake
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