1 (edited by William 2022-01-24 09:02:21)

Topic: Is this a genteel forum?

Should there be a policy on zero tolerance of bad language?

One post already used a word showing a letter, two asterisks and another letter.

A word such as 'rubbish' could have been used instead.

This is not the BBC, which seems often to need the s word in its dramas, unnecessarily in my opinion.

It makes it difficult to recommend a programme to a friend.

So I suggest a definite policy that this forum is a polite, genteel forum, where the culture is that only socially respectable language is used.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

I’m reluctant to be too strict about this, William. Although there is a ‘swear filter’ on this forum, such things are indiscriminate: I remember one occasion where a user on CommunityPlus tried to sign off as ‘Dick’ but got his name censored. I don’t think we want to end up being unable to talk about carp or donkeys just because the forum software decides that we mean something else!

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

A word such as 'rubbish' could have been used instead.

I published the joke as I found it.  The man was really annoyed about what he thought he was trying to read, and c*** was what he felt and said.

The modern tendency is to publish the whole word, and I am sure, in this place posters would not resort to that.

This is no place for serious obscenity, but please live in the modern world. It is not genteel, but we don't have to go towards the use of words like darn, and consarn for damn.  Look at any collection of jokes from the US in the early  30's. Genteel is the word for those now unfunny jokes.

I do find sexual references uncomfortable, but there is a level of modern acceptance in the general public of some references to body functions, which every single one of us suffers.

I agree that there are many expressions, and Bowdlerised versions of them, which should not be published.

4 (edited by William 2022-01-24 11:04:22)

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

When I talk to people such language is never used. Not by me, not by others.

I only hear swearing on the BBC.

I find the use of the s word in films and on the BBC appalling.

For example, I started to watch the following programme.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b … -episode-1

There is s-word vulgarity in the first 90 seconds.

Was the s word necessary?

Does the BBC have a policy that drama must include the s word?

Some time ago I watched the first episode of a drama about autism. About 40 minutes a character, not anyone purported as being autistic, used the s word.

Do people go around talking like that in their everyday lives?

I consider that standards are important in society and that it is not silly to bother about such things.

I never use the toned-down terms that Jack mentioned either.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

William wrote:

Do people go around talking like that in their everyday lives?

Is that a rhetorical question, like this one?

William wrote:

I never use the toned-down terms that Alfred mentioned either.

What “toned-down” terms do you mean, William? I referred to a proper noun, a kind of fish and a type of mammal, none of which is a euphemism for something vulgar.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

My apologies, I had already changed my post before I saw your post.

You had quoted me before I changed it.

My mistake.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

William wrote:

My apologies, I had already changed my post before I saw your post.

You had quoted me before I changed it.

Thanks, William. That makes more sense now!

Unfortunately, you’ve highlighted yet another of those awkward examples. Are we to be debarred from discussing the mending of socks?

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

However the first quoted part was not a rhetorical question.

Do people go around talking like that in their everyday lives, using, amongst other vulgar words, the s word?

For example, commenting in the hearing of a member of staff upon being advised that there is no 'whatever' in the supermarket.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

On reflection, I could have changed the word to "nonsense", and I expect other renderings of the same joke - it's quite an old joke - would use a milder word.

You will find that in my postings over the life of the Lounge, I never, or hardly ever, used an asterisked word. I too find them distasteful. (I except the use of a**, which is nonsense to a UK English speaker).

At the same time, while  I can understand your feelings, and sympathise with them, we live in a big wide world where nasty things are said. The use of asterisks is meant to diminish the impact of what some regard as obscenities.

You'll have to forgive me for these next comments. You appear to live in a world where women are named Jane, Edith and the like. In the world now, they are more likely to have more ethnic names. This makes me think that you may have an old-fashioned approach to language which colours your thinking. You are not wrong in this, just not quite prepared for this world.

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

I consider that we should not be prevented from discussing the mending of socks when that is done in good faith, but mentioning of the mending of socks should not be used as a way to depart from making one's best efforts to participate in the maintaining of a genteel environment.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

Since you allude to my novels by mentioning the names of two prominent characters, have you read this chapter?

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~ngo/l … er_019.pdf

What about that name?

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

Mariposa?

More like Ranjit, I think (as an example).

What on earth are you on about mending socks?  The diversion from topic is yours!

We don't have to be genteel, just polite. . .

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

William wrote:

I consider that we should not be prevented from discussing the mending of socks when that is done in good faith, but mentioning of the mending of socks should not be used as a way to depart from making one's best efforts to participate in the maintaining of a genteel environment.

William

A noble sentiment, perhaps, but how are such things to be policed (other than by self-censorship)? If I write “I hope these darned socks don’t need darning again soon”, depending on how you read it you might be offended by the adjective.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

jackneve wrote:

What on earth are you on about mending socks?  The diversion from topic is yours!

Not so, Jack! William was responding to my post where I wrote:

Alfred wrote:

Are we to be debarred from discussing the mending of socks?

That followed on from your observation:

jackneve wrote:

This is no place for serious obscenity, but please live in the modern world. It is not genteel, but we don't have to go towards the use of words like darn, and consarn for damn.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

Alfred wrote:
William wrote:

I consider that we should not be prevented from discussing the mending of socks when that is done in good faith, but mentioning of the mending of socks should not be used as a way to depart from making one's best efforts to participate in the maintaining of a genteel environment.

William

A noble sentiment, perhaps, but how are such things to be policed (other than by self-censorship)? If I write “I hope these darned socks don’t need darning again soon”, depending on how you read it you might be offended by the adjective.

By using the Sergeant Wilson style approach of asking someone using such language if they could possibly try please in future to contribute more effectively to the genteel enviroment of the forum.

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

William wrote:
Alfred wrote:

A noble sentiment, perhaps, but how are such things to be policed (other than by self-censorship)? If I write “I hope these darned socks don’t need darning again soon”, depending on how you read it you might be offended by the adjective.

By using the Sergeant Wilson style approach of asking someone using such language if they could possibly try please in future to contribute more effectively to the genteel enviroment of the forum.

William

I wasn’t asking about the form of words to be used when requesting care in how one expresses oneself, I was alluding to the difficulty of determining whether (for example) the word “darned” is a minced oath or a simple use of the past tense.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

Oh, right!

William

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

No, this is not a genteel forum, as brought to mind with maiden ladies taking their cream teas in a little thatched cottage near railway with an Emmet locomotive puffing away.

We must hope and try to attain a polite environment, which may have to accommodate some rough language as used by the majority of the modern population. There are not always polite synonyms for things which may jar on occasion, and asterisks are a means of avoiding total confrontation with those terms.

It is true that in the first joke I posted, I could have used a different term which would offend no-one. I apologise for that. However, if it became necessary to describe more accurately certain waste, one should not use the c or s word, with or without asterisks, but would you, William, be upset if one was to use in plain speech  fecal or excreta . Where do you stop with individual sensitivities.

They say the degree of civilisation goes with distance from, lets say, the sewers.  People who have looked after very young children by necessity become desensitised to human waste material, and spend more time nearer the sewers, if you get my drift.

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

If it were me and I had a need to express such things, say to a nurse or a doctor, I think I would probably use more euphemistic terms than those you mention. But let's not go into details please.

William

20 (edited by jackneve 2022-01-24 17:36:35)

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

If it were me and I had a need to express such things, say to a nurse or a doctor, I think I would probably use more euphemistic terms than those you mention.

That's sad. People are all different in what upsets them. You certainly are entitled personally to feel unhappy when you need to discuss things with their proper names with a doctor or nurse. But, I feel that it indicates that your judgement re gentility is of diminished value.

Nurses and doctors are well hardened concerning body parts and their derangements. Do you think a doctor who closes up deep and bloody wounds, or cuts out bowel cancers,  is upset by your need to say fecal matter or stools rather than - oh, sorry, I can't even think of a euphemistic synonym. Perhaps "I went twice yesterday." Where? To the paper-shop?

I am talking about real life, and not what could be said as a matter of course in these posts.

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

The fact of the matter is that a person often discusses things with a doctor or nurse that one would not discuss with other people.

It is not a matter of being upset, or the doctor or nurse being hardened.

The fact of the matter is that, say, when a man is discussing something with a female nurse there is a balance between the medical discussion necessity and the everyday politeness to a lady. It is a delicate balance of trying do both simultaneously.

William

22

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

(I except the use of a**, which is nonsense to a UK English speaker

Unless they speak with a Bristol accent.

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

(I except the use of a**, which is nonsense to a UK English speaker

Unless they speak with a Bristol accent.

I was thinking more of the written word.

What to do with a Bristolian? Hm.  Lock him up for being a pirate, oo arr.

Re: Is this a genteel forum?

I rather like the overall flavor that jackneve is trying to impart.

I can swear fluently in Spanish.  I will use that tongue when I really want to get ugly.  Otherwise I will use genteel speech in the King's English, or at least the American version of it.