Topic: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

https://corp.unicode.org/pipermail/unic … /date.html

Interestingly, a recent post, the most recent at the time of the writing of this note, links to a post from 2010 in the High-Logic forum.

https://corp.unicode.org/pipermail/unic … 10921.html

Yet thereby draws attention to the whole thread, some of which I have been reading.

This was before some developments that have occurred later.

Just because somebody provides advice does not oblige that advice to be followed.

William

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

The thing is, unless I have missed something or forgotten, nobody has ever said why my ideas are out of scope, they just tell me that they are out of scope.

As a researcher I need to proceed on the basis of evidence and reasoning, not on just because someone, or even many people, say my ideas are out of scope.

Alas, a document intended for the Unicode Technical Committee cannot go into the Current Document Register if the gatekeeper decides that the topic is out of scope, even if no reason for that decision is stated.

From my viewpoint, I have devised a collection of symbols that can be regarded as the characters of Language Y which language has a language code of x-y and which language is such that each symbol in the language is a grammatically stand alone whole sentence within a stated context.

So Language Y is an auxiliary language for assisting communication through the language barrier. Yet an auxiliary language in a form different from Esperanto, another auxiliary language, as Esperanto is a complete language yet needs to be learned, whereas Language Y could, if set up with cascading menus and automated localization, be used without needing to learn it.

I appreciate that the issue of scope is a separate issue from the requirement of needing to prove widespread usage. Maybe sometime one or more of the companies that have students for the summer might give them the project of trying to implement my invention and add their own ideas and see what they produce.

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

William wrote:

The thing is, unless I have missed something or forgotten, nobody has ever said why my ideas are out of scope, they just tell me that they are out of scope.

Sławomir Osipiuk explained the rationale rather pithily in his post to the Unicode Mailing List:

The members of the consortium have the biases (and they ARE biased) and follow the trends of the tech industry. They want things that are either directly useful to their purposes, or that at least generate reliable public goodwill and engagement.

If you need it to be spelled out in more detail, look no further than Van Anderson’s observation in the High-Logic Font Forum thread:

The fact is that no manufacturers do produce a list of localizable sentences. Do you think that the Emoji just appeared out of nowhere? It has been decades in the works. It started with a recognition that emoticons were in use quite frequently among the non-business users of mobile phones in Japan. So one (maybe more) of the players in the mobile phone market decided to research creating little characters to meet the need that emoticons were doing on an ad-hoc basis. It has developed from there. You are suggesting to put the full weight of the standard behind something that you think industry might support. This is cart-before-horse. There needs to be a community out there that interchanges information before you'll get interest. Get someone to use this, and everything changes. Get a vendor to support it. It's the same reason Klingon PiqaD was not encoded - no one uses it to exchange information! There is no conspiracy in Unicode, and other than an absolute prejudice towards proposals that meet an actual need, there is no elitism.

It looks to me as though the problem you’re up against here is that you believe

the issue of scope is a separate issue from the requirement of needing to prove widespread usage

whereas in practice these two issues aren’t really separate at all.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

Alfred wrote:

It looks to me as though the problem you’re up against here is that you believe

the issue of scope is a separate issue from the requirement of needing to prove widespread usage

whereas in practice these two issues aren’t really separate at all.

Perhaps that is the answer. Perhaps I am looking at it as a mathematician and they are looking at it from other viewpoints.

For example, I started off with conversations about the weather, on a sort of establish a minimal system that works with just a few sentences, then add another sentence and that works and makes the whole system better, and then so on recursively, in a sort of pure mathematics way. Perhaps others observed that and regarded it differently, having studied different subjects.

William

5 (edited by William 2024-05-15 17:00:05)

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

Do you have any ideas of how the invention can become implemented and in widespread use unless it is "forward pass" encoded into Unicode first.

A long forward pass of encoding in Unicode could work magnificently.

If my novel got made into a movie ...

If I win a million pounds on the Premium Bonds ...

I wonder which of those two has the greater probability of happening.

William

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

William wrote:

Do you have any ideas of how the invention can become implemented and in widespread use unless it is "forward pass" encoded into Unicode first.

No, I don’t. It’s clear that you don’t, either, and that’s exactly the problem Van Anderson wrote about:

vanisaac wrote:

You are suggesting to put the full weight of the standard behind something that you think industry might support. This is cart-before-horse. There needs to be a community out there that interchanges information before you'll get interest. Get someone to use this, and everything changes. Get a vendor to support it.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

7 (edited by William 2024-05-16 07:47:30)

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

I suppose that a new program Affinity Communicate that includes it as one of many features might be the way.

Convince a vendor I have been told.

It is interesting that emoji got going in application with Private Use Area encodings (plural) and they were not always mutually compatible.

William

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

William wrote:

It is interesting that emoji got going in application with Private Use Area encodings (plural) and they were not always mutually compatible.

That lack of compatibility is, of course, what prompted the development of the Unicode standard. I’m reminded of the old quip: “Engineers love standards, that’s why they have so many of them!”

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: Localizable sentences discussion on the Unicode mailing list

So I need to try to find a way to go forward.

William