Topic: British English versus American English

What’s wrong with the following paragraph from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9x33z8nzpo?

The day was extraordinary in its normalcy, given the chaos of four years before. Harris stood at the front of the US House chamber with a sombre expression as lawmakers read out each state's election results before formally declaring their authenticity.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

2 (edited by Ali 2025-01-07 11:54:30)

Re: British English versus American English

'Normalcy' is not a British English word. 'Normality' would have been my chosen word. Was it written by a US journalist working for the BBC?

Re: British English versus American English

That’s exactly what I wondered, Ali. But then, why ‘sombre’ rather than ‘somber’?

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: British English versus American English

Because the journalist in question is aware of some Britishisms, but not others? And it’s not a spelling difference, it’s a different word.

5 (edited by GB 2025-01-08 07:33:31)

Re: British English versus American English

What’s wrong with the following paragraph from https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd9x33z8nzpo?

The day was extraordinary in its normalcy, given the chaos of four years before. Harris stood at the front of the US House chamber with a sombre expression as lawmakers read out each state's election results before formally declaring their authenticity.

Ambiguity. Who or what is declared authentic? The ambiguity would not exist if the word "results" had been singular, as it could well have been - there was only one election (of the Electoral College) in each state. Of course, had it been singular, it would be the lawmakers being declared authentic, probably not what is intended!

Otherwise nothing, or nothing much.

Fowler's has an interesting entry on "normalcy".

Apparently "normalcy", "normality" and "normalness" all entered the language in the middle of the 19th century. Even the word "normal" did not acquire its present meaning until about 1840. Before then, since 17th century, it just referred to rectangles and perpendiculars.

As far as "normalcy" is concerned, its use in British English is "rare (and disliked)", but in North America, especially USA, it is the more frequent form. In Indian and East Asian English "normalcy" is, as it were, the norm.

"Normalness" has not caught on anywhere.

Another point: How can something "extraordinary" be "normal"?

See also https://english.stackexchange.com/quest … -ridiculed

Re: British English versus American English

Alfred wrote:

why ‘sombre’ rather than ‘somber’?

Ali wrote:

it’s not a spelling difference, it’s a different word

Really? What do you think ‘somber’ means, Ali?

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: British English versus American English

GB wrote:

"Normalness" has not caught on anywhere.

I’m not surprised!

GB wrote:

Another point: How can something "extraordinary" be "normal"?

Not just another point, Geoff, but a very good one, too! I would have said “remarkable” rather than “extraordinary”.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

8 (edited by Ali 2025-01-08 12:25:33)

Re: British English versus American English

Really? What do you think ‘somber’ means, Ali?

You misunderstood: sombre and somber are the same word with different (British v. US) spellings. Normalcy and normality might have the same meaning, but they are not the same word.

My point was that whoever wrote the piece, if they are American, may be aware of the British spelling of certain words, but not so au fait with vocabulary usage/preferences. Does this make sense now?

Re: British English versus American English

Ali wrote:

Really? What do you think ‘somber’ means, Ali?

You misunderstood: sombre and somber are the same word with different (British v. US) spellings. Normalcy and normality might have the same meaning, but they are not the same word.

My point was that whoever wrote the piece, if they are American, may be aware of the British spelling of certain words, but not so au fait with vocabulary usage/preferences. Does this make sense now?

Thanks, Ali. That does indeed make perfect sense! I had thought you were responding to my question

Alfred wrote:

But then, why ‘sombre’ rather than ‘somber’?

rather than your question (echoed by me) about whether the word ‘normalcy' was used instead of 'normality' because the piece was written by a US journalist working for the BBC.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

Re: British English versus American English

One might ask this question:  Is it likely the intent of the original statement would be understood  by a speaker of British English and a speaker of Americanized English?

I would opine yes.  Context adds a great deal to likely interpretations of individual words.  Methinks this to be a tempest in a teapot.

Re: British English versus American English

Of course it’s more likely than not that it would be understood, but the point is that writing “normalcy” in an article intended for a British audience is like writing “manoeuvre” in an article intended for an American one.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

12

Re: British English versus American English

Actually there is very little need for the words "normalcy", "normality" and "normalness". They can always be replaced with minor rewording with "normal" or "the norm".

The day was extraordinary in its normalcy

could easily be replaced with "The day was extraordinarily normal, given..."

It's true that 99% of the time the intended meaning of badly worded and ungrammatical sentences is readily understood, but that is not really a good excuse for institutions such as the BBC!

Even the common (in the USA) expression "I could care less" is generally understood to mean the exact opposite!

13 (edited by Ali Today 05:51:45)

Re: British English versus American English

Alfred wrote:

Of course it’s more likely than not that it would be understood, but the point is that writing “normalcy” in an article intended for a British audience is like writing “manoeuvre” in an article intended for an American one.

No, it isn't. British v. American spellings are different to choice of vocabulary.

A better comparison would be using hood instead of bonnet when referring to a car.

14

Re: British English versus American English

Ali wrote:
Alfred wrote:

Of course it’s more likely than not that it would be understood, but the point is that writing “normalcy” in an article intended for a British audience is like writing “manoeuvre” in an article intended for an American one.

No, it isn't. British v. American spellings are different to choice of vocabulary.

A better comparison would be using hood instead of bonnet when referring to a car.

What isn’t what? BrE vs AmE spellings are indeed different to (or as I would more usually say, different from*) choice of vocabulary. However, maneuver and manoeuvre mean the same thing; likewise, normalcy and normality mean the same thing; the biggest potential for misunderstandings is where the “same” word means different things depending on whether you’re a BrE speaker or an AmE speaker, the word “pavement” being a popular example.**

“Bonnet” in the context of cars is peculiarly British. When was the last time you heard someone refer to the inner workings of something as anything other than “under the hood”?

________
*In AmE it’s (typically?) “different than”. In BrE it’s “different from” or “different to”; my preference for the “from” variant stems from the fact that you can say “X differs from Y” but you can’t say “X differs to Y”.
**BrE “pavement” is equivalent to AmE “sidewalk”. The word “pavement” also exists in AmE, but with the potentially dangerous difference that it’s equivalent to the BrE word “carriageway”, which is where the moving cars are.

"Has it ever struck you that life is all memory, except for the one present moment that goes by you so quick you hardly catch it going?"
― Tennessee Williams

15 (edited by Ali Today 09:43:19)

Re: British English versus American English

Ali wrote:
Alfred wrote:

... but the point is that writing “normalcy” in an article intended for a British audience is like writing “manoeuvre” in an article intended for an American one.

No, it isn't.

Normalcy and normality are different words (albeit with the same meaning). Manoeuvre (French spelling adopted by us Brits and most Canadians) and maneuver (US spelling) are the same word spelt differently. I am being pedantic, but we must not confuse words with various spellings and synonyms.

“Bonnet” in the context of cars is peculiarly British. When was the last time you heard someone refer to the inner workings of something as anything other than “under the hood”?

When did you last hear a Brit refer to the "hood" of their car???