Re: Canva-Affinity Live Stream Announcement(s) What do we think?
So I suggest you relax and learn rather than rigidly sticking to opinion as though it is fact.
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Alfred's Serif Users' Forums → General Discussion → Canva-Affinity Live Stream Announcement(s) What do we think?
So I suggest you relax and learn rather than rigidly sticking to opinion as though it is fact.
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Bad_Wolf wrote:If you don’t need the AI tools, the apps are free — forever.
There is NO guarantee on that. The apps require Internet activation. That means that, if the activation servers ever go away, you will not be able to re-activate and use the apps again should you ever need to re-install in the future.
Should that happen, what can open an Affinity v3 file other than Affinity v3? Not v2. Not v1. Not InDesign. Not Quark. Not Scribus. You'd be stuck with a bunch of files you would no longer be able to access and use.
To me, that's an important detail.
I agree with all your comments. I have a perpetual Adobe CS6 licences that still run. More important, I have an Adobe Lightroom V6.14 perpetual licence. Adobe discontinued this many years ago. When I needed to install it on a new machine, two years ago, it didn't activate (the old laptop and died so I couldn't deactivate), I called Adobe in the UK and after some being passed around and on hold a bit I got through to the person handling it who reset the installation counter to zero! This is because I PAID FOR A PERPETUAL LICENCE So I suspect that if someone has something else obsolete eg Fireworks that they paid for a perpetual licence, Adobe will sort out an activation.
This is why people who were complaining they didn't want a subscription are complaining Canva affinity.studio is free. You don't have a paid perpetual licence that Canva have to respect. The Free Canva affinity.studio you get has no perpetual licence or sales contract with you. They can do what they like when they like to the app. Including what is in the paid subscription and what is not.
Also, as noted, the change in file format. It isn't Affinity V3 format, it is a new Canva format. Affinity V2 formats were a progression of V1 the new af format is completely different.,
The other thing is the direction of travel. It is not towards the professional end of the market to compete with Adobe, but it is being subsumed into the Canva quagmire. This is the free giveaway to ensnare you in to the Canva subscription family of non-professionals. Of the 4 sections in the studio one is CANVA AI. (I note that the "layout" part was all but ignored by Canva and Affinity launches). Also there are the free stock images that are in V2 and I assume studio, how long before you need the base Canva subscription to access them? These stock images are probably where Serif came up on Canva's radar.
In fact, I would put money on affinty.studio, the new branding and what is coming next were all worked out in advance by Canva before they even spoke to Serif about the buyout. Which apparently happened in a month according to Ash and I can see no reason to doubt this. For those who have worked in the industry, as I have in both small outfits and large corporates, as well as running my own company, it doesn't happen in a month from out of the blue. It also helps if you can read company accounts.
This would suggest that Canva had been planning it for some time and gave Serif Directors an offer they couldn't refuse. (I note 5 resigned at the point of take over and the new Company Secretary and CLO is an American resident in Australia) Canva have certainly been planning to go public with an IPO in 2026 and this acquisition of Serif is part of that plan.
BTW I don't blame the Serif Directors for any of this.
Also, as noted, the change in file format. It isn't Affinity V3 format, it is a new Canva format. Affinity V2 formats were a progression of V1 the new af format is completely different.
Perhaps I’m missing something here — it wouldn’t be the first time! — but I don’t see a substantial difference in practice. Serif Affinity version 1 apps can’t open Serif Affinity version 2 files, and none of the Serif Affinity apps can read the new Canva Affinity format.
Some of the later versions of Serif’s ‘Plus’ applications were patched to enable them to open files saved from even newer versions — so that, for example, version X6 could open files saved from version X8 — but I can’t imagine anything like that happening with the Affinity version 1 or 2 apps.
JAmedia wrote:Also, as noted, the change in file format. It isn't Affinity V3 format, it is a new Canva format. Affinity V2 formats were a progression of V1 the new af format is completely different.
Perhaps I’m missing something here — it wouldn’t be the first time! — but I don’t see a substantial difference in practice. Serif Affinity version 1 apps can’t open Serif Affinity version 2 files, and none of the Serif Affinity apps can read the new Canva Affinity format.
Some of the later versions of Serif’s ‘Plus’ applications were patched to enable them to open files saved from even newer versions — so that, for example, version X6 could open files saved from version X8 — but I can’t imagine anything like that happening with the Affinity version 1 or 2 apps.
My point was that the newer versions of the Plus and Affinity apps and incrementally changed file formats because new things were added. Hence, the difficulty in backwards compatibility. It is interesting that Serif did it with some Plus apps, I wonder had we not had Canva but Affinity V3, if they had done that with Affinity? However, the new .af format is complete new, not an incremental update.
As Canva has cut off the Affinity forums and website, hence the new affinity studio website on a new URL it is clear they want to distance themselves from V1 and V2, the only way is Canva now. They don't want any backward compatibility with Affinity V1/V2
You can see this with how they are doing the branding, I have seen this before. Hence, affinty.studio rather than Affinity. The new affinity is just a sticker on a Canva system. I suspect it will become a-studio over time.
Apologies for stepping out of my lane again, but on the About screen in the new Affinity app, it says Affinity with a version number below it and it starts with a 3.
Ash explained in the video on Thursday that this had been built on the same architecture as V1 and V2, and that this architecture was already set up in anticipation of a future merge of the apps, even back at the very start.
@Ali;
You are correct, it is Affinity and not Canva which is shown in the opening screen.
For those who don't believe it, I added a screencapture of the about screen.
I regret the negativity of many replies in this thread. I like your positive attitude and hope that, over time, people will be more positive too. Many people are afraid or do not like change; they prefer to stick with what they know. That is perfectly human and ok. However, people have to realize that change is unavoidable.
The Plus days are long gone, and now the Affinity Suite steps up to a new level. We don't know what the future will bring, but I am sure it will be good for those who can adapt.
I refuse to be brow-beaten by negativity: there's a lot to be happy about today.
I salute you and thank you, Ali!
It's absolutely amazing with how much negativity folks approach this new offering. If I just look at what the new app brings, I only feel appreciation for what the Affinity development team has come up with.
Yes, it takes some time to get used to and, yes, some things need further development, but everything in V2 is there. And what promising new features and what great new approach to Affinity's original aim to create a one-stop multi-app and cross-platform program!
The PR was quite lacking and created a lot of confusion and suspicion but I hope the dark storm will exhaust itself soon and people will start to enjoy this new and more snappy app.
@Bad_Wolf & @Hilltop
Thank you both.
My positivity has got me into a lot of hot water over the past few days, and not just here. I am glad to know that mine is not a lone voice!
@Bad_Wolf & @Hilltop
I am glad to know that mine is not a lone voice!
No, it's definitely not!
But shouting is more fashionable than cheering, it seems nowadays.... ;-)
Ali wrote:@Bad_Wolf & @Hilltop
I am glad to know that mine is not a lone voice!
No, it's definitely not!
But shouting is more fashionable than cheering, it seems nowadays.... ;-)
That is true. Social media has somewhat lowered the level of public discourse, and in general, social media is a bad thing. It was far better before the Eternal September, but the genie is out of the bottle.
Re affinty,studio the vast majority of Canva users are delighted. So are many of the former Serif users. Though, some did go into instant doom ad gloom mode.
There are some, a minority it has to be said, mostly professional and serious users of Affinity who are ringing alarm bells due to having seen all this sort of thing before. In my case, as I have detailed previously, I have been in the software and high-tech industry for decades, including owning my own company. I have seen takeovers/mergers from several standpoints, Inside the company bought, in side the buying company, from the side of someone involved with both parties.
Several of you are cheering the Canva move, despite the written words from Serif saying something different (It is just that you have to look for them.and know how to read them) Serif have stated that after the Canva takeover, their engineering plans changed a lot. In particular, that they didn't do as many updated to V2 as they wanted to. They were also working to Canva's timetable.
Canva's affinity.studio isn't Affinity V3. Either from a marketing point of view or an engineering point of view. They are doing just enough for the fan-boys to argue it is V3 but that is it, just window dressing. affinty.studio is no more Affinity V3 than it is Page Plus V22. When you have worked on the inside of these things, you get a feel for it when you look at what is said, what is written and what is done, and how it is done.
The big problem is there is no perpetual licence.
This is probably too subtle for many, but with a perpetual licence you have a legal contract. As with a subscription. The difference is the subscription can be changed. So can a perpetual licence but only for new users. It can't be back dated. Hence, Affinity V1 and V2 still working. With a subscription licence, the rules can be changed at each point you come to buy the next subscription period (monthly?) and that then it affects what the software you have will do next month.
With "Free" you have nothing. They can change the terms and capabilities at any time.
With Canva's affinity.studio it is free and subscription. Thus, they can change any part of it at almost any time. You have zero guarantees other than what you have paid for on subscription but only for the period of the subscription (IE a month?) So in 2 months the whole split of what is free and what is subscription can change.
Yes affinity.studio will always be free forever (BTW "forever" is seen as 5 years in many fields) You will be able to download it for free and run it for free but what it can do for free will change. As will the subscriptions and what you can get for them. So the free forever slogan isn't worth the paper it is written on.
This will be driven by Canva not Serif as they lost most of their directors (5 of them) when Canva took over and installed their own Company Secretary and Chief Legal Officer (an American based in Australia). Engineering, marketing and direction will be decided by Canva in Australia.
Canva are going for an IPO launch in 2026 IE becoming a public company, currently they are a private company. This will make the current Canva owners billionaires. Canva's whole model is entry and low-end market that is subscription. They are not moving up market to take on Adobe, they have no need to. Besides, those professionals who would pay a subscription are staying with Adobe.
That is the reality.
If it suits you, fine but understand this is now all being driven by Canva and their ethos. Serif had about 5 million users. A drop in the ocean compared to Canva users (nearly 400 million?). Canva don't care if they piss off 2.5 million affinity users, as they will make up that number easily in the coming months. Or at least the increased revenue to the Pro subscription for the AI.
AI and templates is something the mass market want. It isn't something the professionals want. However, there are far more in the mass market who will pay a subscription than the professionals who won't. Also, this tends to be age related so those who won't pay subscription will dwindle anyway over the years
This is business. Big business that will smile and knife you in the front. Never mind the back. It isn't nice, and I have seen many small companies die on contact with big business. The name is still there, and the logo, though most get a new one in time, but that is all it is. the ethos and people go.
However, I think it is a sad end for Serif. Though I don't blame the Serif directors (the 5 that went or those still there). I suspect they were given an offer they could not refuse. Particular given the speed of the takeover. These things usually take a year, not a month.
It is what it is.
I will be staying on Affinity V2 The outfits I work with will also stay on V2 for now. Where after that I have no idea
But make no mistake it is Canva affinity studio NOT Serif Affinity V3
So I suggest you relax and learn rather than rigidly sticking to opinion as though it is fact.
Perhaps it's time to take some of your own medicine.
The big problem is there is no perpetual licence.
This is probably too subtle for many, but with a perpetual licence you have a legal contract. As with a subscription. The difference is the subscription can be changed. So can a perpetual licence but only for new users. It can't be back dated. Hence, Affinity V1 and V2 still working. With a subscription licence, the rules can be changed at each point you come to buy the next subscription period (monthly?) and that then it affects what the software you have will do next month.
With Affinity v1, as long as you have your license code, you will be able to run it for as long as you have a machine capable of running it.
With Affinity v2, unless you have a business license that does not require Internet activation, there is no guarantee for how long you will be able to activate a new install of v2. How long will Canva keep those activation servers running? They can argue now that v3 is free so you can just switch rather than use the old, discontinued v2.
We have no idea how v3 and onwards will be. When v4 comes out, will you still be able to use v3 or will you be forced to upgrade?
Internet activations and subscriptions both put you and your work subject to the whims of companies you have no control over. You can be forced to upgrade to newer versions you may not want to use and such forced upgrades might force you to buy new machines you may not be able to afford or otherwise want. You lose control over your own work and your own scheduling for upgrades and new purchases.
JAmedia wrote:The big problem is there is no perpetual licence.
This is probably too subtle for many, but with a perpetual licence you have a legal contract. As with a subscription. The difference is the subscription can be changed. So can a perpetual licence but only for new users. It can't be back dated. Hence, Affinity V1 and V2 still working. With a subscription licence, the rules can be changed at each point you come to buy the next subscription period (monthly?) and that then it affects what the software you have will do next month.With Affinity v1, as long as you have your license code, you will be able to run it for as long as you have a machine capable of running it.
With Affinity v2, unless you have a business license that does not require Internet activation, there is no guarantee for how long you will be able to activate a new install of v2. How long will Canva keep those activation servers running? They can argue now that v3 is free so you can just switch rather than use the old, discontinued v2.
We have no idea how v3 and onwards will be. When v4 comes out, will you still be able to use v3 or will you be forced to upgrade?
Internet activations and subscriptions both put you and your work subject to the whims of companies you have no control over. You can be forced to upgrade to newer versions you may not want to use and such forced upgrades might force you to buy new machines you may not be able to afford or otherwise want. You lose control over your own work and your own scheduling for upgrades and new purchases.
Agreed. It will come down to what Canva do with the Serif servers. Which means all bets are off as Canva isn't Serif and the number of V1/V2 users who haven't gone to Canva is going to be about 0.5% of their customer base.
However, as even Adobe honour perpetual licenses years after discontinuing products. I am hopeful that Canva will for V1 and V2 but realistically here is F all you can do about it if they don't.
However, as even Adobe honour perpetual licenses years after discontinuing products.
Unless you have/had CS3 or CS4 . . .
JAmedia wrote:However, as even Adobe honour perpetual licenses years after discontinuing products.
Unless you have/had CS3 or CS4 . . .
Fair point. I didn't know that as I have CS6 and still use bits of it.
I was referring to Lightroom V6.4.1 but I have just found this
Starting with 12/31/2023, Adobe has ended download support for Lightroom 6. This means that you'll not be able to download Lightroom version 6.14. Which isn't good, but then it was superseded in 2017. I have back-ups and if you can chase your way around Adobe's UK phone system you could get your activation sorted. Though, I think I did that before 2023.
Talking of Lightroom, I was hoping for an Affinity DAM (Lightroom+Bridge) to tie the three Affinity apps together. That would have made it perfect.
The problem, Canva isn't aiming at the professional market. As a wise person said to me once. An amateur has one saw, a carpenter has 6. saws. Also there is a reason why a professional doesn't normally use multi-tools. They are not optimized for anything.
As we were discussing in other places, photo work usually needs a dark UI (as does video editing) but DTP had a light UI.
We are now looking for something to migrate to when we can't carry on with Affinity V2. This is either when it becomes impractical on current systems or we need more seats.
I am not against subscription per-say it depends on what it is for. We are looking at the BMD Resolve Cloud subscription for when we need a team working on a video project from remote sites. However, that is a functional add-on to the system, for which I have a perpetual licence. They can't take that away from me. On a "free" system I have no rights or protections at all.
I am not against subscription per-say it depends on what it is for.
The only type of subscription I like is the type where you have a permanent license to the last version you got while your subscription was active. Not many companies do that but a few do.
Light mode removed from the UI…
Extremely annoyed about that!!!!
Have sent the feedback - As to them ever bringing it back is another matter.
Also, the Welcome screen cannot be switched off, which is another irritation !!!!
PaoloT wrote:Light mode removed from the UI…
Extremely annoyed about that!!!!
A retrograde step if ever there was one!! The fact that the Light UI Mode was warmly welcomed when it was added to the original desktop Affinity apps, together with the continual complaints from those of us who want the same option in the iPad apps, is a clear signal that users want more such options rather than fewer.
sneil69 wrote:PaoloT wrote:Light mode removed from the UI…
Extremely annoyed about that!!!!
A retrograde step if ever there was one!! The fact that the Light UI Mode was warmly welcomed when it was added to the original desktop Affinity apps, together with the continual complaints from those of us who want the same option in the iPad apps, is a clear signal that users want more such options rather than fewer.
Whilst dark mode is essential for photo work (and video editing), you need light mode for DTP, i.e. "Layout". That was the bit that bot Canva and Ash almost ignored in the affinity. studio launch. So we can see where they are going with this. Affinity Publisher V2 users won't want to use Canva's affinity.studio.
Affinity Publisher V2 users won't want to use Canva's affinity.studio.
Of course I want to and I am using it. But a light UI option is very welcome.
JAmedia wrote:Affinity Publisher V2 users won't want to use Canva's affinity.studio.
Of course I want to and I am using it. But a light UI option is very welcome.
Light UI *is* welcome, or would be? I thought it was set to a dark UI, have they made it switchable?
To be usable, you need photo with a dark UI and publisher with a light UI. I think Vector graphics usually use a light UI?
It needs to be set per app or in the case of affinity studio by persona,
To be usable, you need photo with a dark UI and publisher with a light UI.
Depending on the kind of photo work you’re doing, the ambient lighting may be more important than whether the UI is light or dark. But DTP definitely needs a light UI option (preferably on by default for most of us, although if it’s a ‘set and forget’ toggle then it doesn’t really matter what the devs choose as the installation default).
Light UI *is* welcome, or would be? I thought it was set to a dark UI, have they made it switchable?
I stand corrected, it would be welcome.
JAmedia wrote:Light UI *is* welcome, or would be? I thought it was set to a dark UI, have they made it switchable?
I stand corrected, it would be welcome.
Yes, it would be welcome,
but it appears Canva have optimized the UI for photo users. Also, they pushed photo and AI not saying much about the Publisher side, which would normally have a light UI.
Incidentally, Canva changed Serif's direction and apparently slowed the maintenance releases for V2. Which gives you some idea of the way Canva works.
I am normally interested in everything new but in this case I am not going to trust Canva for 3.0 for a simple reason: if I use it I will not be able to return to 2.6 level.
I use (very) intensively Publisher, I know its limits, bugs and crashes.
But what can happen to me with 3? Should it have new problems, what can I do? And why? 3 does not offer for me any advantage and has many risks.
BTW: as far as I tested it, it does have new problems.
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